Lived It

Main: Are horny movies best enjoyed alone?

Episode Summary

The pleasures of watching ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’ (and not just the obvious one). Plus the cultural legacy of fanfiction, ‘Twilight’ stans, and watching awkward movies with your mum — all in this episode with Alexei Toliopoulos and Gen Fricker.

Episode Notes

Episode Transcription

Gen Fricker:

At the most simplest, this movie is a very horny exploration of contract negotiation. Hello there, I'm Gen Fricker.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And I'm Alexei Toliopoulos.

Gen Fricker:

This the Big Film Buffet.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And this is a podcast for pop culture fans and people looking for what to watch recommendations.

Gen Fricker:

Today, for our main course, a Netflix film that we think you should watch this weekend. It's a steamy little number.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

It's a film you may have heard of. It's a film that lives in infamy and intimacy. We're talking about 50 Shades of Grey.

Speaker 3:

The following are the terms of a binding contract, between the dominant and the submissive. The fundamental purpose of this contract is to allow the submissive to explore her sensuality and her limits safely.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I'm very excited to talk about 50 Shades of Grey. I mean, I'm going to admit it now. This is a movie that I do tend to be drawn to a little bit. I mean, after all I'm but a mortal man, how could I not be?

Gen Fricker:

Hey, man. We all have the same desires, the same ones. I think also, if we're talking about films that are perfect for staying in and watching, this is one of them. I think this nails the brief entirely.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely. Because I'll tell you this, on the record, I'm going to be completely honest with you. This movie may have been a tremendous sensation in the realm of pop culture, but this was my first experience with it.

Gen Fricker:

Right.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I had not seen it in the cinema. I didn't read the book, but tragically I did see the book on my mother's bedstead, that may be the reason why I didn't read it.

Gen Fricker:

No.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yes. That's true. So, I didn't want to see the movie in the cinema. I think this was like you said, the perfect movie to watch at home.

Gen Fricker:

First, before we get too carried away, let's get into the premise of it. If you somehow missed 50 Shades of Grey the first time round, this is the movie adaptation of the book by E.L. James. The book was a huge, huge pop cultural moment.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Mega.

Gen Fricker:

This movie and the subsequent series of films were so, so hyped up. This one came out in 2013, it's directed by Sam Taylor-Johnson. It stars Dakota Johnson, no relation.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

No relation, thank goodness. They're not related.

Gen Fricker:

Oh my gosh. As Anastasia Steele, a young student who falls in love with a mysterious older man, Christian Grey, the titular Grey. And they begin a sordid and sexual relationship.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And it, I would say, made the idea of BDSM, sadomasochism, into a mainstream conversation, in it being titillating, not just a fetish that's so faux pas or something. It brought the idea of, I guess, kink into the mainstream world.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. It's definitely, I think, part of the reason that caught on so much when the book first came out, was because it was fan fiction. It was Twilight fan fiction, that E.L.-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Is that true?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. Yeah. It's set in Seattle like the Twilight films are, and there's a lot of crossover between the two. But it's also, one of the few times we see on screen and also in mainstream culture, pleasure from a female perspective. It's not so much the woman being objectified under the male gaze, but more about a woman discovering something about herself and the ways that she likes to get turned on, et cetera.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah.

Gen Fricker:

This is probably the most high faluting part of this whole podcast, because we will really get into the nitty gritty. But what's your first impression? You'd never seen it, you never really engaged with it, what did you think when you first watched it?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I texted you immediately, because within six or seven minutes, I'm having the best time of my life.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I am just absolutely just sinking into this movie, because I think this movie really represents something in that idea of guilty pleasures. And I don't think pleasure should be guilty. I'm talking out loud. It's not just the context of the film. I think people should enjoy what they enjoy. And a lot of people would dismiss a movie like this as trash, but I think that this is pure pulp. And my pulp will be mean like this idea of genre, almost like this thriller, this idea of a fantasy, a heightened reality, where things can be a little weird, can be a little bit bonkers, can be a little bit crazy. But for the most part, we're trying to create an exciting genre experience.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

This is luxurious to see a movie, and based on a book like this, with a script like this, that is so in that realm of trashy, pulpy, erotic novella type stuff, where it's like very overt dialogue, where people like saying directly the things they mean to each other. And then it lives in this realm of sensuality, and almost a chasteness, which is really weird in this movie. That's a thing I did not anticipate, that this movie would have a chasteness around it, which to me, is one of the more horny or erotic things that a film could do.

Gen Fricker:

Totally. Yes.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Is have this layer of chasteness around it, and then beneath it all is completely grimy, yucky, sexy stuff that just works so well. I think within the first 12 minutes, I'm eating this up. I'm having the time of my life, because it's just such weird dialogue straight away, and I think Dakota Johnson is such a fantastic actor. Hearing her say lines where she has to go interview this guy that she didn't plan on interviewing him, she's been put in this situation which is meeting Christian Grey, who's a famous businessman. Who's extremely handsome. And one of the questions she just asked him was, are you gay? It's like, oh, sorry. I didn't mean to ask that. That was a question my friend put down on her notepad and I had to ask because it was there. I was like, give me a spoon, because daddy's eating this up all day long.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

In this pulpy realm there is this great tradition of thrillers that lead into eroticism. I don't want to say like a Roddick thrillers exactly, but it's a genre that I particularly enjoy. I love this movie by the way. Wachowski sisters who also did The Matrix and stuff, and Cloud Atlas, called Bound, which is Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly as like this mafia heist movie between them, but they're falling for each other and are drawn to each other. And that's the kind of movie that I really enjoy, and I remember you were telling me about Cruel Intentions as well.

Gen Fricker:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Again a very pulpy adaptation of this capital L literary novel.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. What is it? It is Dangerous Liaisons, right?

Gen Fricker:

Exactly. Liaisons Dangereuses.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my God. You can't speak French on this episode.

Gen Fricker:

I can and I will Alexei.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh, oui oui.

Gen Fricker:

Oh la la. But, yeah. No. And that for me, was scandalising seeing that. I saw that film when I was maybe 12 or 13 and I was like, this is crazy. These teens are hot and they're hot for each other.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

There are things in Cruel Intentions that have really left an impression on me. Horse running scene I'll never forget it. Even down-

Gen Fricker:

Up, down, front, back, up.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Don't. You're sending me back. Even Sarah Michelle Gellar, where she had that cross that had cocaine in it, I've never not thought about that. That's like my go-to thought when I close my eyes.

Gen Fricker:

So, I first saw it at the cinema-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

...because I'm a cinephile Alexei.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Of course you are.

Gen Fricker:

Okay? And I went with my friend, Michael, Michael Hing. Shout out Michael Hing.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Shout out to Hing, one of my friends too.

Gen Fricker:

And it was really interesting, because obviously coming from a book adaptation, there's a lot of horny expectation for the movie. And to be in a cinema full of women who were there to get steamed, it was a really weird experience.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

There's an atmosphere change in the room at a certain point.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. Which then made it feel decidedly unsexy watching it. But then I re-watched it last night and just had, like you said, the best time. Just fun. It's one of those films you can just settle into the couch, you don't have to think too much, it's pretty, everyone's beautiful in it.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. Gen, you really painted this picture of what I think the true joy of watching this movie is. It is that steaminess. Do you think it is better to watch a horny movie by yourself or to watch a horny movie not by yourself? Perhaps with a crowd.

Gen Fricker:

That's difficult to answer, because it depends on what you're going for.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

What the vibe you're intending to set is.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, for example, would I watch 50 Shades of Grey with a bunch of my girlfriends? Yeah, because we'd all just have a laugh, and then we could all be like, oh my God, that's so hot. You're all having a good time. You're all aware that it's very silly, but you're also all aware that it's hot. I don't know. There's something nice and liberating about everyone being like, this is hot. It's not serious. We're just having fun.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

True. Maybe I'm too prude because I'm like, okay. This is something I want to watch by myself. I didn't see in the cinema. I've waited until now to finally watch it and take it home with me. But I think my mom would introduce me to big cinema and exciting things. So, we went to watch a lot of European art house movies together, when I'm 13, 14 years old. And just having to sit next to my mom while there's beautiful European actors just getting naked, just staring at this screen, that tension is not what I want around. I remember we saw a movie called 1900 by Bernado Bertolucci, he also did Stealing Beauty with Liv Tyler, huge recommendation if you like the horny movies. But 1900 was like this epic movie about communism in Italy and stuff. Within the first 10 minutes there's a scene where Robert De Niro, beloved American film icon Robert De Niro from The Godfather Part II, and Analyse This and That, and Gerard Depardieu, the big fat chef from The Life of Pi.

Gen Fricker:

Asterix and Obelix.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

He plays Obelix in Asterix and Obelix movies. They are in bed, completely naked, and a woman gives them a touch on their penises in a sexual manner. And I'm sitting there watching it with my mom. I love these two actors, and I'm just seeing them get their penises fondled on the screen next to my mom. And let me tell you, this is a four hour movie, and I don't know what happens after it. I can't remember anything after that.

Gen Fricker:

You blacked out.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

My brain was like, listen. There's going to be some memories that we're going to suppress from now, turn it off. I think that's like why I've always, with something like this, even as pulpy as it is, I'm like, this is in the privacy of my own home. I'm locking the doors. I'm putting a chair against them.

Gen Fricker:

I also feel like European cinema is a trap though, because European cinema is horny cinema.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah.

Gen Fricker:

Sam Taylor-Johnson, her background is in visual art. She then later moved into movies like Nowhere Boy.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. Which is a John Lennon biopic about his early days. That stars Aaron Taylor-Johnson. Now there is a relationship. They were married.

Gen Fricker:

I found myself squealing and laughing and having a good time. Pulpy. It's not trying to be anything it's not. I was thinking about it. It's like how I watch action films. You go into certain movies and you have expectations, and some action films you're not in there because you're like, I wonder what this is going to say about the human spirit. You're like, no, I want to see how many cars get flipped. How many explosions, how many baddies get shot, and that's the thing. And this is a genre movie in that it's like, you're going to see some hot people doing it.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. You're going to see a thrust or two. Okay. I'll be honest. There's going to be a thrust or two in this movie.

Gen Fricker:

I feel like I saw side pin.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. Okay. I think I might have seen the side pin too. And guess what? You're watching it at home on Netflix. You can pause every now and then. If you need to take a break because it's too steamed up, you can take a pause. You can take a breather and go for a walk around the house. But also if you need to catch a little glimpse or something, you can pause it. No one's going to stop you. That's what's the beauty of watching a movie like this at home is. It's private. Okay. No one's around you. But I think as well, the cultural impact of 50 Shades of Grey, the book then the movie, is so large that there's even a movie that I absolutely adore called Book Club, starring Diane Keaton, Candice Bergen, Mary Steenburgen, Jane frickin Fonda.

Gen Fricker:

The queens.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

The absolute queens of cinema. The whole movie is them reading the book and it reinvigorating their sex lives. They all start hooking up and dating again. And let me add you a little note to that. Jane Fonda hooks up with none other than Don Johnson, Dakota Johnson's dad.

Gen Fricker:

That's hot as shit.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

That's how hot this movie and book were. They made another hot movie for older ladies. But also I would say that it's interesting this relation to Twilight, as this beginning as fan fiction, because I would say Twilight lives in that chaste realm where it's all the sexiness and horniness is hidden behind like, oh no, but we mustn't. Oh, it's dangerous that we should do this stuff. This metasexual climax, if you will, of E.L. James reading those, being aroused by the chasteness of those, and going like, okay. But we're going to spank them pretty hard in my version. I think that's something that is so delightful to me.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. Well, yeah. So, E.L. James wrote the 50 Shades of Grey trilogy on her notes app on her phone, on the train on the way to...

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my. I hope that they honoured her by writing the script in the notes app as well.

Gen Fricker:

I hope so too. So, I really went into a Wiki hole. E.L. James produced this along with the two producers of The Social Network.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my... What?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. I don't know. It was the least horny film with the most horny film.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. That is exciting though. I don't see the connection, but now I'm thinking about that. Okay. Maybe there's something in the look, where there's something similar.

Gen Fricker:

I mean, it's a very stylish film. It really reminded me of other horny cinema I love.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh, yes.

Gen Fricker:

One of them being Magic Mike.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my gosh. This... Yeah. Absolutely. Magic Mike is my true delight of horniness.

Gen Fricker:

People always write off people who like the film Magic Mike. It's a film about the American dream.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely.

Gen Fricker:

It's about Steven Soderbergh's handheld vision. It's about men owning their sexuality for the female gaze.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. And I would also say, if you're enjoying this dive into erotic cinema and that erotic thriller, there's a great movie on Netflix now called Indecent Proposal, which is such a little horny flick, because it's Woody Harrelson, the name's horny in itself.

Gen Fricker:

He's got a horny name.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Is married to Demi Moore. They meet Robert Redford on holiday. Robert Redford's like, I'll pay $1 million for a night with your beautiful wife.

Gen Fricker:

Would you do it, Alexei?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

For a million dollars, sure. I'd take a loan out to hook up with Robert Redford. I'm paying him. One of the most famous icons of beauty in cinema, I'm doing it.

Gen Fricker:

Is he married to Barbara Streisand?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

No.

Gen Fricker:

They were just in a movie together.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

In a movie that's unforgettable.

Gen Fricker:

Are you saying all movies aren't true?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

They're not all true. Okay. He didn't get married to Barbara Streisand. That was a movie called The Way We Were.

Gen Fricker:

Okay.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

What he did instead was he started The Sundance Film Festival.

Gen Fricker:

All right. Well, that's a whole different podcast.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And I want to go for a sundance with him, okay?

Gen Fricker:

Another film that apparently acted as inspiration for Sam Taylor-Johnson when she was directing this film, was Blue is the Warmest Colour, which I remember when that came out was quite shocking in its depiction of lesbian sex, but also just female desire.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. I would say Blue is the Warmest Colour is like a well-known beloved French art housey, award-winning film. I would give 50 Shades of Grey just a one up on that.

Gen Fricker:

Really?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yes. Because I think that movie, it has a problem because of a male director, and it's got this idea of the male gaze applied to female love that I don't think works. Whereas I think Sam Taylor-Johnson, a great female filmmaker, bringing her female gaze to an erotic thriller, something that would also put in with Bound as well, the Wachowski sisters movie, I think that there is something that works in it being a female vision and a female gaze. Because I think that the male gaze can come off as very creepy in a movie like this, but these bring a sensuousness to them.

Gen Fricker:

I think what it is about these films directed by women, is that so much of female desire is about lust. With Twilight, I think what obviously resonated with the younger people reading it, it's all about being on the precipice of danger. And there's a lust and a yearning and like a what's on the other side of this door that I'm about to open? And I feel like female directors are really good, and especially Sam Taylor-Johnson in this film, is really good with representing that visually. And it's not gratuitous. It's not just like, it's just all out doing it. There's a scene where Anastasia and Christian are negotiating a contract. And he's just noticing that she's pressed her legs together a bit. She swallowed a bit hard. She's bitten her lip. And these are all things that when you are trying to hide your yearning, that is so much hotter than these all out, full on nudity scenes.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. It's all about the build up.

Gen Fricker:

Yes.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

It's about, should I say? The foreplay if you will.

Gen Fricker:

Hate it.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I thought it would be more averse. I thought that we would see some really crazy stuff, but it really lives in sensuality. There's beautiful cinematography. I think Seattle is shot really nicely, the way they create it as this rainy city, we're staying indoors and we're mucking around.

Gen Fricker:

Oh, it's cold.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Quite misty.

Gen Fricker:

Have a drink by the fire.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And I did love the cast. There's an actor in it, Marcia Gay Harden, she plays an FBI agent on Law and Order on SBU every now and then, that's why I love her. But I think she's a great actor, and she plays Christian's mother in this film. And I think that while this was going on, I kept expecting like, another part of the movie is going to start. They're going to talk about the company that they all work for doing shady dealings or something.

Gen Fricker:

There isn't a lot of base story going on. At the most simplest, this movie is a very horny exploration of contract negotiation, right? That's it. It's just like, they meet, he wants to get her to sign a contract, they have sex.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. They have sex a few times.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

A few times.

Gen Fricker:

Different ways.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

A few different ways.

Gen Fricker:

And that's it. You can watch the movie to figure that out.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Exactly. It's all about that escalation of how they're doing it.

Gen Fricker:

Oh my God. I have a little treat for you. So, initially the studio that made 50 Shades of Grey was considering our guy, Joe Wright, to direct.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

But then he couldn't get his schedule to work.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my God.

Gen Fricker:

But if you listen to our Woman in the Window episode, and I highly recommend you do, you'll know that we love Joe Wright because he is not a subtle man.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

No.

Gen Fricker:

He does everything at full volume.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Maximalist cinema.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. Absolutely maximalist. And to think about what he could have done with this movie, I couldn't sleep last night.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I'd have tears in my eyes thinking about it, because it's just like, I would love to have seen that. I think every director has to make a version of 50 Shades of Grey, just so we can see what they would do with the material.

Gen Fricker:

What they would do. Some directors do the handheld movies, I'd love to see handheld 50 Shades of Grey. I'd love to see the Wachowski sisters do 50 Shades of Grey. I would love to see... Yeah. Joe Wright, who directed Woman in the Window, directed Pride and Prejudice, the latest one, directed Ana Karenina, and directed Hannah and The Darkest Hour. I would love to see what he would have brought to this turbo melodrama. I will say though, I'm really glad that the Sam Taylor-Johnson version exists, this sense of sensuality, how beautifully it shot, can only have been done by her.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

One thing that went further beyond this movie is the music. This movie has a score by Danny Elfman, who everyone would know from doing Batman, 1989, the Tim Burton movies, the theme to The Simpsons. But his scores very understated for a Danny Elfman score, which shocked me to pieces. I couldn't believe it. And then, where the music really comes in is interesting pop music that is delivered in a different way. Like there's a Beyonce song, which is what? Crazy in Love?

Gen Fricker:

Yes. But she's reworked it so it's this slow bedroom jam.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. Like an Etta James like slow jazz. Really, it's cool.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. And Worth It by The Weeknd is nominated for best original song from a soundtrack-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow. At The Oscars?

Gen Fricker:

At The Oscars that year.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Not a separate horny Oscars that they run secretly.

Gen Fricker:

Horny Oscars.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I really think this movie is worth watching, especially because Dakota Johnson is such a prominent actor now, really reaching new heights. She was incredible in Suspiria, and she's working with so many great directors now. But I think that seeing her movie star birth in this film, and all the controversy surrounding it and stuff, you're seeing someone who's controlling their performance so well and finding this naturalism in what could be huge cinema. Like a maximalist cinema. She finds a real intimacy in it. And I mean, I love her, man. She's so fricking good.

Gen Fricker:

She's so good in this. It's also, it must be very confronting. She's fully nude in a lot of these scenes, and it just shows you she was ready to go there from the get-go. And to see what she's gone on to, which is Killing Ellen. Her career just reaches new heights every day.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely. You didn't invite her to your birthday party, actually I did invite you Ellen.

Gen Fricker:

That's not the truth, Ellen. That's not the truth. No. Ask everyone. 50 Shades of Grey is on Netflix right now, and we could not recommend it more.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And it's up to you whether you watch it by yourself or with a loved one or with a stranger. Take a risk watching 50 Shades of Grey, why don't you.

Gen Fricker:

Watch it on your phone on public transport.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

That's what we're recommending today on the podcast, take a risk, watch 50 Shades of Grey.

Gen Fricker:

And if you like The Big Film Buffet, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Leave us a review. We always love reading them.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

This episode was hosted by me, Alexei Toliopoulos and you, Gen Fricker.

Gen Fricker:

Produced by Michael Sun and Anu Hasbold.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Edited by Geoffrey O'Connor.

Gen Fricker:

Executive produced by Tony Broderick and Melanie Mahony.