Featuring special dinner guest Gen Fricker, ‘Sister Act’, ‘Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom’, and ‘Miles Davis: Birth of the Cool’ make up a musical meal in three acts in this episode with Susie Youssef and Alexei Toliopoulos.
Featuring special dinner guest Gen Fricker, ‘Sister Act’, ‘Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom’, and ‘Miles Davis: Birth of the Cool’ make up a musical meal in three acts in this episode with Susie Youssef and Alexei Toliopoulos. Crescendos aplenty.
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Susie Youssef:
Have you ever heard Alexei Toliopoulos sing?
Gen Fricker:
No.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
(singing)
Susie Youssef:
Hello. I'm Susie Youssef.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And I'm Alexei Toliopoulos.
Susie Youssef:
Welcome to The Big Film Buffet.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
The film podcast for non-film nerds.
Susie Youssef:
But the kind of podcast that's going to make you sound way smarter when you talk about films, whether you've seen them or not.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And I love movies.
Susie Youssef:
Each episode, we'll be sharing with you a three-course feast of films inspired by the Netflix Premiere Flick of the Week.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
We start with a baseline: a classic cinematic starter.
Susie Youssef:
Then we crescendo with our main course: Ma Rainey's Black Bottom.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And a Coda, a dessert of recommendations.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
We're feasting on a meal for our ears today because we're looking at three films about musicians. These are three great, and rather different, films about performing and recording music.
Susie Youssef:
A little bit later on the podcast, we're going to be joined by a very special dinner guest, Gen Fricker.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
One of my favourite music experts in my list of actual friends in real life.
Susie Youssef:
Jen is a comedian, an actor, a writer, a podcaster, a radio presenter. She's so many things, but she's also a trained musician. Because our main meal today is Ma Rainey's Black Bottom.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And it's based on a play by August Wilson about the legendary real life blues singer Ma Rainey. And one of the legendary stars that brought this role to life on the stage is also the star of our starter for today.
Susie Youssef:
The one, the only, Whoopi Goldberg.
Maggie Smith:
And while you are here, you will conduct yourself as a nun. Only I will know who and what you truly are. You will draw no attention to yourself whatsoever.
Whoopi Goldberg:
But look at me, I'm a nun, I'm a penguin!
Alexei Toliopoulos:
In the film, Sister Act, Whoopi Goldberg stars as lounge singer, Deloris Van Cartier, who escapes her gangster boyfriend and is placed in the witness protection programme with the most unlikely of company: a convent of nuns. And let me tell you this, from there hilarity ensues.
Susie Youssef:
If you were a child of the '90s, then Whoopi Goldberg, and this film, and this soundtrack, would have shaped your life in some way or another.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I love Whoopi Goldberg. I love everything about her. I love her fricking name.
Susie Youssef:
Yes. You love her name, but do you know her real name?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Whoopi Goldberg's not her birth name?
Susie Youssef:
It is not. Sadly, it is not her birth name. Her birth name is Caryn Elaine Johnson.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Oh, wow.
Susie Youssef:
She took on the name Whoopi Goldberg because apparently... She was a theatre actor, she did a lot of that kind of side stage.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
That one woman show stuff?
Susie Youssef:
Yes, yes, yes. So she says in an interview that she never had time to go to the bathroom and close the door. So she would just slowly release gas at the side of the stage.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
That's what I do while I'm podcasting.
Susie Youssef:
I know. And then she got this nickname Whoopi, straight from a whoopee cushion.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Oh, no way. And she decided to adopt it?
Susie Youssef:
Yeah. She was like, "I'm going to embrace it." The way all good comedians do.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Wow. I shall now be known as Toots Toliopoulos.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's one of the great magnetic comedy all-star performances. This is really the epitome of the fish out of water comedy.
Susie Youssef:
It totally is. It's a clash of worlds and it creates this perfect mixing pot of tension and humour. When I re-watched this, it reminded me that this is not just an excellent comedy, which it is, but the stakes are so high. It's a crime film.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
They literally are life or death stakes.
Susie Youssef:
It's life or death.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's crazy. And that poster of Whoopi Goldberg dressed up as a nun with that cheeky grin, and those coy eyes peering over sunglasses, with those candy apple red high heels, just peeping out underneath her nun robes? I don't even know what they're called.
Susie Youssef:
Her habit?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Oh yeah. Because then she'll be come back in the habit one day when she goes back to the C Corp. It's just that perfect classic comedy poster that shows all the comedic juxtaposition this movie's all about.
Susie Youssef:
It's kind of the story of a rebel who eventually kind of has a cause. It's very cheeky. It's very irreverent. I think as a Catholic school girl, it spoke to the repressed passionate woman within me. And Deloris Van Cartier is this wild, sexy woman who, ultimately, really wants to do good. But I think the thing that excited me most about this is that she's this amazing black woman who just shakes shit up in a big white nunnery.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's the ultimate Whoopi Goldberg performance. It utilises all her skills of being the all around entertainer. She's funny, she's sings, she kind of dances.
Susie Youssef:
She side steps at best.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And I think her greatest skill of all as a performer is, Whoopi Goldberg is one of the great listeners. She closes in on other people's performances and you see her really listen to what other actors are doing. She really captures this exhausted authenticity of being that day in day out underappreciated performer.
Susie Youssef:
Totally agree.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
We both have this Kathy Najimy obsession. Please, I want to hear you talk about Kathy.
Susie Youssef:
I love Kathy so much. Not only is she absolutely hilarious, especially in Sister Act, but she's joyful. And for comedy performers, I don't think that that is a very common combination. I think that's very rare.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And it's something that we've definitely stolen from her, you and I. That's not just Kathy Najimy here.
Susie Youssef:
It's not just Kathy. This is a powerhouse female ensemble. This is the perfect dry humour of Maggie Smith, who I love so much.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
So good. This is the beginning of McGonagall, I would say.
Susie Youssef:
Yeah, I would say it is as well. Her as Mother Superior, so stern, but just that really subtle... Like if you get even the tiniest smile from Maggie Smith, you can die.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
You ascend to heaven. It's the final thing.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I've got to ask you this. What do you think about the sequel, Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit?
Susie Youssef:
What do you mean, what do I think about it? Do I think about it every day? Yes I do.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I think it's one of the most underrated movies.
Susie Youssef:
What are you talking about?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's sitting at an extreme negative mark on Rotten Tomatoes.
Susie Youssef:
No, this is one of the greatest films of all time.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I think it's really good. I think it's maybe better than the original. I don't know why I got so much flack in its time.
Susie Youssef:
This is Lauryn Hill.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's Lauryn Hill. We're talking about the Fugees. She's in it. It's kind of School of Rock with Whoopi Goldberg and Lauryn Hill, if it was actually about something.
Susie Youssef:
Do you think it's actually underrated?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Yes, I do. They are in the midst of making a third film: Sister Act 3: We're Back in the Habit Again, is what I'm guessing it's going to be called.
Susie Youssef:
Well, if you follow the logic of the first two. So the first one, she's a lounge singer who goes into a convent and she teaches an adult choir to sing better. And then she goes back and teaches a high school choir to sing better. So surely, this is-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Oh, I got to pause here for a moment because we're about to get the exclusive Susie Youssef pitch for what she thinks the third Sister Act movie should be.
Susie Youssef:
Well, it's going to be-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
This is a big moment.
Susie Youssef:
It's got to be something about the creche. Surely she's teaching four year olds how to sing.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
She goes all the way back. I think it should be Doubt, but replace Meryl Streep with Whoopi Goldberg. And it's just high stakes drama.
Susie Youssef:
That sounds amazing.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Even if they just release a feature length, deep fake of that, I'll buy the Blu-ray tomorrow.
Susie Youssef:
You would buy the Blu-ray of pretty much anything.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
That's true.
Susie Youssef:
I have to say that my favourite Sister Act fact is that the police officer, who is a beautiful actor, who puts Deloris in witness protection in the convent is played by the actor, Bill Nunn.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Okay. I'm spinning out here. His name is Bill Nunn and he's in a movie about nuns.
Susie Youssef:
Bill Nunn is brilliant.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
He is brilliant. Let me bow down to bill Nunn. He's a great character actor from this era. He is in Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing-
Susie Youssef:
One of your favourites.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
... playing Radio Raheem. And he's a completely different character. It's hard to believe that they're the same actor. When I'm watching it, I'm like, "These can't be the same guy", but it is Bill Nunn. It is Bill Nunn.
Susie Youssef:
But before we go down Bill Nunn black hole-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Because I'm spinning out, absolutely.
Susie Youssef:
Because you are totally spinning out of control.
Susie Youssef:
It is now time for our Premiere Flick of the Week: Ma Rainey's Black Bottom.
Speaker 6:
Cutler, this here my nephew, Sylvester. He going to do the voice intro on that Black Bottom song, using the old version.
Speaker 7:
What you talking about? Mr. Irvin said, we're using my version.
Speaker 6:
Cutler, get him straightened out on how to do his part. I ain't thinking about Levee. These folk done mess with the wrong person this day.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Tensions rise when the trailblazing mother of the blues, Gertrude "Ma" Rainey and her band gather at a Chicago recording studio in 1927. And it's adapted from the August Wilson play.
Susie Youssef:
This cast is next level: Viola Davis, Chadwick Boseman, Glynn Turman, Colman Domingo, Michael Potts, Taylour Paige, Dusan Brown and Jonny Coyne. They are all outstanding. We're not going to speak about everyone today, but holy moly, they are good.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
But before that, Susie, I want to know what your initial thoughts about the movie were?
Susie Youssef:
I didn't know when I started watching this, that it was based on a play, but I kind of had a feeling from the setting. It's in this old Illinois recording studio, which is such a great setting for this story.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Gorgeous as well.
Susie Youssef:
And even though it's only one location, it kind of feels like a whole world as well as underworld and like a landscape of memories, all within this one building.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Yeah. I think that feeling of this being a play adaptation, August Wilson really makes full use of the limitations of the theatrical experience, but really making it feel contained to a few spaces in one location. I think George C. Wolfe honours that feeling while completely building it out and making it more cinematic.
Susie Youssef:
Yeah, definitely. And at the head of that is Viola Davis.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I was going to say, I cannot believe how fricking great Viola Davis is in this movie. But to be honest, I can, because I think she's one of the greatest actors working today. It's honestly breathtaking watching her mumble her way through the lines, and this in a way that feels very off the cuff, very naturalistic and feels fully intentional and studied. And what it does most, it really makes you the audience and the other actors stop everything and lean in and listen to her. She embodies this huge character, this out of this world, real life person, in a way that feels so intimate that I don't even see Viola Davis in the role. I just see Ma Rainey.
Susie Youssef:
I totally agree. She's out of this world in this film. And I fell in love with her, I think probably watching the heist film Widows, where you just see so many different elements to this actor, who is absolutely brilliant. But now I'm going to say it, Ma Rainey's is my favourite of all of her roles. And I think that this has Oscars written all over it. And I know that that's really annoying to say sometimes because it is distracting, but this is-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
This is it.
Susie Youssef:
This is it.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
This is such a great performance. It's so exciting to see an actor like Chadwick Boseman basically equal her in this movie. We need to talk about this performance by him.
Susie Youssef:
So beautiful. At first, I didn't know if I loved or hated the character of Levee. I was a bit unsure, but I knew that I loved his performance from the moment he hits the screen. And it's really subtle so it's not one of those hero moments where he hits the screen and you're like, "Oh, it's about this person." He very subtly is performing on stage when we meet him for the first time, he's got that cheeky smile, it's absolutely beautiful. At one point he delivers a particular story, it's one of his monologues in the film, and you can just see his face twitching and he's sweaty in it, his eyes are watering, and I just had goosebumps.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I think he was this incredible actor and this movie star of the future. And it's a tremendous loss for the artistic culture of the world that Chadwick Boseman has passed away. And going through all his performances over the last few years, I think he so powerfully channels the emotion of anger. In stuff like Black Panther, it's this anger that has to be calmed down and walled off. In the revenge thriller, Message from the King it builds and it breaks. In Spike Lee's Da 5 Bloods, it's searing and it's powerful. I think he utilises it in this way that it gives him this career best performance in a career full of only stellar work. It builds in this owed entitlement backed up by natural musical talent. And then it breaks in this really tragic way. I can't even begin to just put into words how special and what a loss it is. He's just incredible in this film.
Susie Youssef:
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.
Chadwick Boseman:
Y'all back up and leave, let me alone.
Speaker 9:
Oh, come on Levee. We was all just having fun. Toledo ain't said nothing about you he ain't said about me. You just taking it all wrong.
Speaker 10:
It meant nothing bad, Levee.
Chadwick Boseman:
Levee got to be Levee. He don't need nobody messing with him about the whites. You don't know nothing about me. You don't know Levee. You don't know nothing about what kind of blood I got. What kind of heart I got beating here.
Susie Youssef:
I felt like I couldn't catch my breath in this movie. I felt really choked up in that way that you do when you're in a family situation. Like you're at a family dinner and someone maybe starts a fight or it's gone from passive aggressive to actual aggressive. And you just feel like you're in the middle of something the whole time.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Yeah. I think it really is due to the use of close-ups in this film. It creates this ratcheting tension because the camera pushes into these close-ups and it works so beautifully in capturing these performances, especially Boseman who has such a precise facial actor. He has these quivering eyes that you were talking about, that hold back so much when he's already belting out an incredible amount. And it creates not only the sense of escalating tension, but also this really unique feeling of the space that we're in.
Susie Youssef:
Our dinner guest today is a comedian, a musician, a writer, an actor, a radio presenter. She also on occasion rocks a fringe; I'm very jealous of her fringe. She wanted us to introduce her as the sickest bitch alive which-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And I would have to agree. I have to agree here.
Susie Youssef:
We should, we absolutely should because she is. Please welcome the wonderful Gen Fricker.
Gen Fricker:
Oh my God. Thank you for noticing my fringe work. It is really part of my career that I feel doesn't get enough praise.
Susie Youssef:
It's literally the only thing I ever praise you for. I just love that fringe so much.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I praise everything about you.
Gen Fricker:
I praise you, Alexei.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Wow. Okay, okay, wow. Wow, wow, wow. My head's inflating, I'm inflating my ego. Thank you so much. It's so good to get a minor compliment and then accept it too far. Wow, my God, thank you.
Gen Fricker:
Oh my God. I'm tearing up. I'm so excited to chat to you two. You're just two rays of sunshine in my life and then to catch two rays in one room?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
That is a rare thing.
Gen Fricker:
It's rare.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
And now we've collected three, including one of the sickest bitches alive, Gen Fricker. I'm so glad that you're here on the podcast with us today because when we decided to record an episode about Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, you came to mind instantly. We know that you have a history in recording jazz music, being in a jazz band.
Susie Youssef:
Oh yeah, it was no accident that we had a little Gen Fricker in this podcast today.
Gen Fricker:
At first, when I saw that you'd given me this film, I was like, "Oh, why couldn't I get The Princess Switch or something? Why can't I do something fun?" But no, there's some parts of this film that really speak to me. Basically, so much of this film is just musicians shit talking instead of rehearsing. And that's honestly, the truth of that really spoke to me. I remember playing in a jazz band and I was terrible. I played double bass and I'm just trying to stay out of shit. You know what I mean? Trumpet, piano, singer, all messy. And you're just trying to keep your head down and hold it together.
Susie Youssef:
How old were you when you were playing the double bass? Because I can imagine that's a big instrument to carry as a young person.
Gen Fricker:
Yeah. I started when I was 13 or 14. It was honestly, my parents got me and my brother playing it because it was an easy way to get scholarships into music school.
Susie Youssef:
Did they just hate money? They were like, "What's the most expensive instrument we can find?"
Gen Fricker:
Yeah, pretty much. And they, I guess, really loved driving gigantic cars, like station waggons everywhere. But yeah, I just remember my bass teacher's studio, where I'd go and do my music lessons, was at the top of a huge driveway. So I'd have to lug my double bass up to the very top of this thing. And then he'd always have a spare bass at the top, in the studio. So I'm like, "Why can't I just use your bass?" And he's like, "Oh no, it's too expensive, not for students." I miss my upper body strength, honestly.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I actually have the same figure as a double bass, I've been told.
Gen Fricker:
Hey, that's a beautiful figure. The art of man ray is just-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Just a gorgeous curvy bod and a tiny little head on a very thin neck.
Gen Fricker:
And a deep resonance.
Susie Youssef:
Gen Fricker, have you spent a lot of time in a recording studio?
Gen Fricker:
Yeah, a bit, honestly again, and I could smell this movie. Like the bit where they shut up all the windows and they put the acoustic baffling across it and they pull all the dark curtains and everyone's just sweating. I was like, "Oh, I know what that smells like." And I know what it feels like to be in a room of five other people and everyone's stressed. And producers are just fiddling with wires and shit. Or finally you do a good take and then something's fucked up that you couldn't even hear. It took me back. And even just like everyone else showing up on time and then one person not. And then just being like-
Susie Youssef:
Can I ask you as well, Gen, were you singing from a young age as well?
Gen Fricker:
Yeah, I was in choirs and stuff growing up. And my parents really wanted me to be like an old timey, showbiz... I did jazz, and tap, and musical theatre singing, and acting. They wanted to me to be a full triple threat. So there's all these real dance school costume photos where I've got the huge hair. And I looked like a 40 year old woman, but on a 10 year old's body. This movie really spoke to me because it really did just remind me of all those feelings of like, "You have to be the best", and you have to be the best every time. And it means you can be a dick to people if you are the best. But there is nothing else but being the best; you can't just be middling. And now as a standup, I'm like, "All there is, is middling."
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's the safest option.
Gen Fricker:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just show up, it's fine, it'll work out. And if it doesn't, they'll know you were right.
Susie Youssef:
Have you ever heard Alexei Toliopoulos sing?
Gen Fricker:
No.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I'm terrified of it.
Gen Fricker:
Why?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I think I have this traumatic experience from when I was a kid. It was like the final assembly of when I was six years old in kindergarten and we had to sing a song. I think it was the national anthem. It's all the kindergartners together to sing the national anthem in a choir. And when I was a kid, I was obsessed with Elvis Presley. I loved Elvis Presley when I was in kindergarten. I just loved him. And to me, Elvis was synonymous with singing, to sing was to be Elvis in my head.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
So when they put me in the choir, it was like, "Okay, we got to sing this song", in my head I'm like, "Oh, I'm just going to do an Elvis impression because that's what singing is." And so, we're doing the national Anthem and I'm singing it like Elvis. And then the music teacher came up to me and was like, "You're really good. You're amazing. You're going to be up the front. We're going to bring you to the front. We're going to give you a solo as well." So I just got freaked out. I got in my head. The pressure was on me.
Gen Fricker:
Who gives a six year old a national anthem solo? That's the most crippling thing you can do.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I was like a little Elvis. Sing a little Elvis solo as the national anthem. And I just freaked out and I just became so shy and embarrassed. I just stopped singing and I just started mouthing the words along and they just pushed me back to the very back of the room again. And I've never sung again in my life.
Gen Fricker:
Really?
Alexei Toliopoulos:
No.
Susie Youssef:
I really have this feeling like you would have a beautiful voice.
Gen Fricker:
Me too. Again, your natural resonance makes me feel like you'd have a lot of power, that Elvis training.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Wow. Okay, I'll try. (singing).
Gen Fricker:
That's beautiful.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
(singing) I actually just realised I don't know the lyrics of the national anthem anymore.
Susie Youssef:
I don't think you know any Elvis lyrics either.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I don't know the lyrics to any song except for The Golden Girls theme song, and that's it. That's the only one I know.
Gen Fricker:
Do you ever think about stuff that happened in your childhood, and you're like, "Thank God, there was no Instagram, or Twitter, or smartphones." You're just like, "Thank God." I don't have to relive through that. I choose to relive through it in my memories. And that's it.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
One of the things I liked about Ma Rainey's Black Bottom that you're talking about is, that aspect of there's this procedural element to how a record is made. When you see all the technology come together, that weight coming down so that the little needle will start etching into the blank waxness of the vinyl. I think there's something so exciting about seeing how that comes to life. So it's like those newspaper movies where you see the printing press starting to work, that I just thought was so exciting and so brilliant. And it just added a tension to everything like that this needs to work because it's physical, it's analogue. They need to get these tapes to record.
Gen Fricker:
Yeah. It feels expensive as well. It feels like every second that they waste is costing the whole world money. Like, "Yes."
Susie Youssef:
Yeah. It's alive. Like it's really a living thing that all parts of the organism, whether it be like the band, the studio, whatever, all have to be completely in tune. And I guess you have to talk about the African-American history of it, how that culture was just completely co-opted by white people and sanitised. That's so much what the movie is about.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Yeah, and I think where the movie really nails it, is the final few seconds of this film, is we do see this very sanitised, boring, white person, huge band, just doing a poorer version of the same song. I think it's just like a magnificent invention for the film.
Susie Youssef:
Yeah. Completely.
Gen Fricker:
The sound design is so good in this movie as well. Like the way it's all cut together is so rhythmic and again, alive and electric. And there's the way all of the group scenes in the rehearsal room, everyone's jumping in over each other and stuff, is a form of cacophony, but also jazz. And I know it's very obvious and also kind of theatery. I guess it is a very theatrical film because it's based on a play and you can kind of see some of those tricks there where you're like, "He's talking like this because he's the future of jazz."
Susie Youssef:
We were talking about that as well, is that there's so many moments in this film where the music either is scoring the film or it's taken out deliberately and then you feel even more tense, which is kind of great because so many directors use music to build tension. And then in this film, whenever they take it out, you're like, "I feel like I'm hanging over like a cliff's edge."
Gen Fricker:
Yes, absolutely. It's such a good film to watch with really good speakers or really good headphones.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Who should watch this movie?
Gen Fricker:
It is a movie for everyone. It really is. If anything, don't listen to the Oscar buzz of it all. That generally puts me off movies when people are like, "Oh, someone's in the running for the Oscar for this." It's like, "Don't watch it for that. Watch it because it's just very good." And the acting is very good, and the music is great and you don't really have to have a knowledge of music, or jazz, or history, or anything to enjoy it. You can just watch it and get into it and be like... It's such a immersive film for something that only really has three locations. Again, theatre.
Susie Youssef:
I have to say, I totally agree with you. And at the same time, I've definitely adding to the Oscar buzz because I love it so much.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Follow The Big Film Buffet on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe on those podcatchers so you get this episode in your feed, every single dang Tuesday, as soon as it fricking drops. And send us a comment or a telegram, rate us, review us, tell your friends about this podcast, tell your grandmother, tell your yaya, inform your nonna about us and send us your love. And we'll be right back with a new ep every single Tuesday.
Susie Youssef:
Gen, can I ask you which film you have watched the most in your life? Which film do you go back to and watch over and over again?
Gen Fricker:
Freaky Friday, the Lindsay Lohan version. I have that on DVD and so I watch it all the time. But also, what came out when I was also a teenager who wanted to play guitar so I was like, "Yeah, this is cool." And the song that her band plays is by an Australian band called Lash. And so I was like, "Wow, that's cool. An Australian band in an American movie. Wow."
Susie Youssef:
Which movie do you cry at? Which one gets you good?
Gen Fricker:
One movie I absolutely bawled my eyes out in was Toy Story 4.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Marco [Cicino 00:24:51] as well, same guy.
Gen Fricker:
Well, yeah and I just remember I went and saw it with my housemate and my housemate's niece and nephew. And so, they did not understand why I was crying at all. And her niece was just looking at me and I'm just, at the end of that movie, just bawling my eyes out. And she's like, "Why are you crying?" And I'm like, "Oh, you won't understand but basically my childhood's over, and everything moves on and that's okay. And you're not there yet."
Susie Youssef:
And you'll never get that time back. And don't worry about it, just enjoy the movie.
Susie Youssef:
It's time for a segment that we call Film or Movie. Because every week we get a title of a motion picture and we have to decide whether it is a film, which is artistic and piece of cinema history as opposed to a movie, which is like a blockbuster candy popcorn we love movie.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Both are great, but they are different forms of cinema.
Susie Youssef:
And this week we are going to put Alexei Toliopoulos up against our very special dinner guest, Gen Fricker, and ask them, is this a film or movie? The title is School of Rock.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Wow, wow, wow.
Susie Youssef:
Gen?
Gen Fricker:
I feel like it's pretty cut and dry, frankly. I think I really struggle to call any movie that Jack Black is in film. And I like Jack Black. I'm not saying he has no place in the cinema canon. I'm just saying, is it film? No, but I feel like it's a stretch to say it's a film and... But it's not a stretch, it just sits comfortably in the movie category.
Susie Youssef:
Okay.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Au contraire, au contraire. Gen Fricker, I cannot believe the words coming out of your gosh dang mouth. I think this is cinema. I think this is film. I think that this is artistic expression from one of the great auteurs of cinema history, Mr. Richard Linklater, or Dicky Links as I like to call him. I think that this is a fabulous film that is all about the joy of music. It is about finding inspiration in the most unlikely of places, the slobby guy who's not qualified to teach. It is about a rule-breaker. It is about someone who dares to destroy the very basic confines of our world, which is the private schooling industry and inspire young kids to become, not just a cellist, but cello, you got a bassist.
Gen Fricker:
How dare you? That is the most offensive part of the movie. Cellos and bass are not the same. They're not the same. They're not the same instrument. And I'm very triggered as a bass player, decades, decades of this joke, decades of people coming up to me on the street and being like, "Cello, you got a bass." They're different because there's five notes between strings on a cello. It's in a different register and it's from a different family, okay? It's just not the same.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Well, Gen, I must say you have fallen into my plan. I have played you like a Stradivarius, which is a very beautifully made violin, from what I understand. I have played you like one of those as if it were painted with blood, like the red violin itself. Because you have exhibited an extreme amount of emotion, an emotional reaction that can only be elicited by film. And I would also put this to you, a young Gen Fricker, seeing this movie, seeing Jack Black inspire these children, a film would definitely seep through the celluloid and the projection upon that movie screen, and seep into a young Gen Fricker. May I ask you this? Did this film not inspire you? Does this film not touch you?
Gen Fricker:
It does. I will say that once I saw it, I saw it with my dad, and then we went and bought a guitar together. And then I started learning to play guitar. And I bought the soundtrack and then I got into Led Zeppelin because The Immigrant Song is in it, and it is so good. And I do really love it. And you got me, Alexei. Let me say it here first, Jack Black changed my life. Get spicy with it, Susie, tell us your truth.
Susie Youssef:
My truth is that Richard Linklater is a film director.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
He's a not a movie maker, he's a film maker.
Susie Youssef:
He's a filmmaker: Boyhood, Before Midnight, Before Sunset, Before Sunrise, all of them, they're all his. But also Dazed and Confused is also his.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Yes and that's a film. I would actually go to bat, that's a film too.
Susie Youssef:
But that is a fight for another day.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
No, let me go right now while I'm in the mood. Unleash!
Susie Youssef:
School of Rock is officially conducted into the hall of film. I never thought I'd say that.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
So, we're coming towards the end of the year and that means our Spotify wraps are coming together. Gen, you're one of my favourite music minds, what were your most listened to tracks? What was your Spotify wrap looking like this year?
Gen Fricker:
Oh man. It was mostly all just the big pop releases from this year, which is very funny, coming off five years of Triple Deke to just be like, Dua Lipa and Lady Gaga. But I think that's what I needed. I just needed something light and bubbly to get me through this year. So I think I just really went into that. I don't like listening to sad music anymore. I don't want to feel anything. I just want dance. Dancey.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Well, I'm almost the opposite, I think. My number one this year literally was Miles Davis, just beating out Kylie Minogue, Grace Jones and the soundtrack to Little Shop of Horrors, so I think I was all over the place. But I think it was because Miles Davis really has got the music to suit pretty much any mood that I'm hoping for from mild sombre jazz, like kind of blue, or to interesting covers from like Cyndi Lauper, like Time After Time, I feel like Miles Davis has everything. And that's why for our dessert on today's menu, we are talking about Miles Davis, Birth of Cool, the biographical documentary about Miles Davis.
Miles Davis:
If anybody wants to keep creating, they have to be about change.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I quite liked this Miles Davis documentary. It's an illuminating biography about the great jazz legend that is Miles Davis. And it's insightful about some of the greatest music ever recorded. But it's still very honest about his shortcomings and deep personal problems as well.
Susie Youssef:
Yeah. It goes through his family history, his relationship history, all of his influences. He has travelled extensively. His struggles with addiction and racism. He basically is the blues. But the thing that really blows me away, is that all of these geniuses through history, and Miles Davis is no exception, they encounter each other along the way. So to see him playing with like Bird and Dizzy Gillespie and then meeting people like Picasso, Jean-Paul Sartre, that absolutely boggles my mind that all of these people lived in the same time period.
Gen Fricker:
You can be Picasso's mate and still get done for smoking a cigarette out on the street. That's wild to me.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
I think that it gets close to capturing the danger of Miles Davis while still being very informative. But it's mainly just it feels like an educational insightful Sunday afternoon watch. And I think that people should know about Miles. People just know about the music and it's a great introduction for people.
Susie Youssef:
Yeah. It definitely made me put on his music and listen to it for the rest of the week. It reminded me how much I love Miles Davis.
Gen Fricker:
I was watching it with a friend who's not a jazz fan at all and by the end of it, he was getting into it and asking questions and stuff. Yeah, nothing better than explaining jazz to someone who's-
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Gen popped on the fedora and said, I got a little treat for us to watch this afternoon. Are there any other movies about musicians that you think are films that people should track down and watch?
Gen Fricker:
Yes. Whenever anyone asks me what I think one of best music documentaries are, obviously the Amy Winehouse one. And that's a crier too. But something that really, I always go back to and I've made so many people watch, and I know that it sounds like this is going to be one of those irony things, but the Katy Perry: Part of Me documentary. Okay, it is incredible. It is an incred... Because she divorces Russell Brand and you just see a woman trying to hold on to her life and do all these songs about Teenage Dreams and like-
Susie Youssef:
And she's heartbroken.
Gen Fricker:
And she's absolute... And playing these huge stadiums. There's parts where she is just on the floor weeping. And then she's got to be carried to the stage and perform. The movie that made me want to play guitar was This is Spinal Tap.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Oh my God. One of the best films ever made. It's the funniest comedy film ever made, this side of Austin Powers.
Gen Fricker:
It's so good. And there's so many people in it and you realise after. You're like, "Oh my God, there's Fran Drescher." She's in it. And I'm such a fan of Christopher Guest and all of those people. But there's just something so great, and again, really shows you the absurdity of being a touring musician.
Susie Youssef:
So today we started with Sister Act and then we moved to our main course, which is Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and finished with a little recommendation of Miles Davis: Birth of the Cool. Gen Fricker also joined us as our very special dinner guest. Gen, we love you. We love your voice. We love your double bass stories. We love everything about you.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
If you want to hear more from me, you can head on over to Total Reboot with Cameron James and Alexei Toliopoulos, where we talk about reboots, remakes and rip-offs in cinema.
Susie Youssef:
And if you want to hear more from Alexei Toliopoulos and Susie Youssef, the people that you've been listening to all day, then come back next week for our last episode of the season. And we are ending with a bang, it's George Clooney's Midnight Sky.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Very exciting.
Susie Youssef:
This episode was written and hosted by Alexei Douglas Toliopoulos and Susie Douglas Youssef .
Alexei Toliopoulos:
It's produced by Michael Sun and Anu Hasbold.
Susie Youssef:
Edited by Geoffrey O'Connor.
Alexei Toliopoulos:
Executive produced by Tony Broderick and Melanie Douglas Mahony.