Lived It

Gwen Stefani almost starred in Mr. and Mrs. Smith

Episode Summary

...and other ‘Sliding Doors’ moments in cinema — the actors who were almost cast in iconic roles, and what could’ve been. We’re talking Pretty Woman, The Matrix, Titanic, and more, all in this episode with Alexei Toliopoulos and Gen Fricker.

Episode Notes

Episode Transcription

Gen Fricker:

Sh. Welcome to The Big Film Buffet, Snack Edition. My name is Gen Fricker, and joining me is the prince of pod-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Ooh.

Gen Fricker:

... the man with the golden tonsils-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my lord.

Gen Fricker:

... as many syllables as is in his name as he has hearts of gold-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

... Alexei Toliopoulos.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

This is one of the most beautiful intros I've ever received.

Gen Fricker:

Thank you so much. You know why?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Why?

Gen Fricker:

Because being here with you right now is everything to me.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god. I'm floating on cloud 12, past cloud nine, even, currently.

Gen Fricker:

No, I want you to know that being here-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

... with you right now is so important to me, because could you imagine if anyone else was here?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

If we were different people?

Gen Fricker:

If we weren't us. If you were played by someone else.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god. Funny you should say that, Gen.

Gen Fricker:

What?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yes. I'm actually thinking about those Sliding Doors "what if?" casting moments myself? Who else was up for some of those iconic roles in cinematic history? Because I've just been reading Seth Rogen's memoir, and in it there is one of the most scrumptious pieces of "what if?" casting in there where he talks about making the movie, The Green Hornet, that he made with Michel Gondry, like a superhero movie, kind of adaptation of a comic book from way back when.

Gen Fricker:

Oh my god. I'm so ignorant of Green Hornet.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I-

Gen Fricker:

What's it about? It's a superhero movie, you're saying.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Kind of like a superhero, a little bit Batman-y but a little bit more surrealistic because it's got that Michel Gondry thing going on. I remember it because I did see it in cinemas, a very rare occasion for that movie to be seen in cinemas, so it lives in my brain.

Gen Fricker:

Rent free, as the kids would say?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh, no, it's paid.

Gen Fricker:

Okay.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

It's paid to be up there. But in that film, Christoph Waltz plays the villain. But the "what if?" casting was the studio really wanted one of my favourite actors, Mr. Nicolas Cage, Hollywood's most eccentric madman, to play that role. Seth talks about him testing for it and him bringing his ideas to it to a dinner where they were meeting up to talk about the film. And Nicolas Cage said that he'd want to play that villain as a white Jamaican guy.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And so he's doing this Bahamas accent at the dinner, and Seth and, I believe, Evan Goldberg, his creative partner, were just like, "This is a bit whack."

Gen Fricker:

Oh my gosh.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And when it became clear that it wasn't working, Nicolas Cage just left the dinner.

Gen Fricker:

I mean, what else can you do?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Exactly.

Gen Fricker:

There's no tapering off from that, is there?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Not at all, and I think when you've got Cage, you're going to get a bold choice like that, right?

Gen Fricker:

Totally. He never goes half in on anything. He comes in with some very big ideas, big swings.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely big swings. No one swings harder than him, and that's why we do love him.

Gen Fricker:

Yep.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

One of the other iconic roles that Nic Cage has been up for almost happened was, unbelievably, he was almost cast as Aragorn in Lord of the Rings.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

The role made famous by Viggo Mortensen.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Isn't that kind of out there?

Gen Fricker:

Similar intensity then, the type of actor, I guess. Again, though, what if Aragorn had a white Bahamian accent? It would be so sick.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

If every time he goes for a role that he does it particularly, was like, "Okay, I'm doing it as the Bahamas guy, okay?"

Gen Fricker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

"The guy's going to be Caribbean."

Gen Fricker:

Oh my god.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

But he turned it down because he said, "It's going to take two years. I want to spend that time with my young kids." And he doesn't regret it because he loves the Lord of the Rings movies so much that he would never have been able to enjoy them as a fan otherwise.

Gen Fricker:

That's cute.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Isn't that sweet?

Gen Fricker:

That's a lovely perspective.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Laurence Fishburne, who is best known for playing Morpheus in The Matrix, but he was actually Quentin Tarantino's first choice to play Jules in Pulp Fiction.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And I love Laurence Fishburne. I think at this time in history, he's one of the best actors going, and I know Quentin Tarantino shares that opinion with me. That's why we get along so well. We've got a few things in common.

Gen Fricker:

That's why you guys are besties, hypothetically. Yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

But he actually turned it down because he thought that it was a little cavalier with the use of heroin, kind of making it feel attractive in that movie, he said.

Gen Fricker:

Right. Okay.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

But can you imagine him in that role?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah, honestly, because I feel like, I mean, I love Samuel L. Jackson, and obviously, iconic Samuel L. Jackson role now, but I feel like Laurence Fishburne's a lot less operatic.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I think that's it, right? Because I think Samuel L. Jackson, he reads that character like poetry, like Shakespearian, something so operatic and building, and how big that performance becomes. Whereas, I think Laurence Fishburne is a little bit more naturalistic, a little bit more nuanced. Deeply intense as well, but I feel like that's a completely different take on the character that may even shape the movie differently.

Gen Fricker:

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Johnny Trav, Johnny Travolta, iconic star-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

One of my biggest guys. Of course, from Pulp Fiction.

Gen Fricker:

... the very pulpy fiction, was considered for Forrest Gump.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yes. I've heard this as well because Tom Hanks, John Travolta in the '90s, weirdly two of the biggest movie stars going.

Gen Fricker:

Weirdly? I don't think weirdly at all.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Well, it's just hard to go back and remember. These are two guys and they were going up for almost all the same roles at a certain point, especially like all the big ones.

Gen Fricker:

You know what? They're old-school Hollywood showmen, in a way.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Big time.

Gen Fricker:

That Travolta could dance.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh, yeah.

Gen Fricker:

He could sing. He could act as well. The other one-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

One of the great triple threats.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. And Tom Hanks, he's comedic, but he was beginning his drama career.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I can't really imagine John Travolta as Forrest Gump. I know that he said that he's almost regretted it, but I think he did Pulp Fiction the same year, which really revitalised his career, made him that comeback king. But I don't know, man.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. I'm trying to imagine it. I can't see it being anyone else.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah.

Gen Fricker:

I can't, and I won't, frankly.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

You refuse.

Gen Fricker:

Speaking of triple threats, singing, dancing, acting, one name comes to mind.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god.

Gen Fricker:

Gweneth Stefani. Popularly-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I don't know if her name's Gweneth.

Gen Fricker:

... as Gwen Stefani.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Gwen Stefani, okay. I don't know if I've ever seen her act before.

Gen Fricker:

The Aviator.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh, she's in The Aviator. Of course.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. Also, just her video clips are always character pieces.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely.

Gen Fricker:

So she, in a Vogue interview, said that she was the runner-up to Angelina Jolie getting cast in Mr. & Mrs. Smith.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Really?

Gen Fricker:

It's film history. Imagine. One of the most iconic film couples.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Brad Pitt, Angie Jolie.

Gen Fricker:

Angie Jolie. And instead it was a Gwen Stefani.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

My god. That's like totally different universe stuff right there.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. That would alter the fabric of history, frankly.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Honestly, completely different dimension. Perhaps even I'm taken to a galaxy far, far away hearing this stuff. One of the most iconic roles in film history, big movie star breakthrough performance, is Harrison Ford as Han Solo in a little franchise called Star Wars.

Gen Fricker:

I think I've heard of it.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

But before that, there were a few other actors in line for the role. And here is one that was offered it, "They said it was mine for the taking, but I didn't understand the script." And that actor is Mr. Alfredo James Pacino.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Al Pacino, The Godfather himself.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

That seems like out there casting when you think of who Han Solo is and you think about who Al Pacino is. And I know why, because George Lucas, the writer, director of Star Wars, based Han Solo on his best friend, Francis Ford Coppola.

Gen Fricker:

Oh.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. He was like, "This is who Coppola is to me. He's this guy, this kind of scoundrel, this kind of scallywag who gets things done." So he approached a few of his actors, who he think could have-

Gen Fricker:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, from that stable.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah, from that stable. So he went to Al Pacino. Then the other choices were Jack Nicholson, Chevy Chase and Bill Murray were also considered.

Gen Fricker:

Oh my god.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

All of them completely different movies.

Gen Fricker:

Far out. I mean, I feel like Al Pacino, he's got that kind of sexy swagger. That would be kind of hot, frankly.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely, yeah.

Gen Fricker:

I'm getting steamed up over it.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Especially a little short king as Han Solo.

Gen Fricker:

Oh, it's just a little nugget. Dang, a little bit of carbonite, trapped in that keg.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god, if only. You've got R2-D2 and Al Pacino as Han Solo.

Gen Fricker:

Just the same height.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Same height. Towered by Chewbacca.

Gen Fricker:

Oh, that's so good. From spacecraft to watercraft.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

And segues being my craft.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

The heart of the ocean, baby, Titanic.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god. Whoa, a Titanic one?

Gen Fricker:

It's the start of this beautiful film friendship, I guess, between Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio. But a man who thought he absolutely nailed the audition and thought he had it was Matthew McConaughey.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

Wouldn't that be such a different film?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I mean, they're completely different actors. I think that Matthew McConaughey I love because I feel like he never lies on screen. He fully embodies the character. He's not chameleonic, but I feel like he believes absolutely everything he's saying.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And I think that he would have been a fantastic Jack because he was a bit of a scallywag from the Dazed and Confused era.

Gen Fricker:

Warm.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yes.

Gen Fricker:

He's got a warmth to him.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god.

Gen Fricker:

Lovable.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

You'd fall in love with him.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. So he said of his Titanic audition, "It was one of those auditions where I'd left and I thought I had it. I really enjoyed it. Kate Winslet really enjoyed it. It was a huge opportunity, but Cameron liked Leonardo DiCaprio better."

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Wow.

Gen Fricker:

Interesting.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I think that's fantastic. I would love to see that ultimate universe because there's a few other Titanic ones that really stand out to me. Gwyneth Paltrow was almost Rose. She said that she was down to the last two, really. She was considered.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

But also Claire Danes turned it down because she'd just done Romeo and Juliet with the afore mentioned Leonardo DiCaprio and just felt like it would be just the same thing again. She couldn't really go through it. And she also just saw Leo's star rising so much. I think she became a bit intimidated as that went on.

Gen Fricker:

Oh, that's very interesting.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I mean, I love Claire Danes, I love Gwyneth Paltrow. Both would have been beautiful movies. But also, one of the other iconic roles in that movie, the unsinkable Molly Brown played by Kathy Bates of Misery fame.

Gen Fricker:

I feel like, yeah, far out an iconic Kathy Bates' role.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely. Do you know who it was offered to first?

Gen Fricker:

Whomst?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Reba McEntire, country music legend.

Gen Fricker:

Oh my god. What the hell?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yes. Reba was the first offered that role. I think she would have embodied the spunk of that character, but she turned it down because she says, "We were on tour and I had a lot of people on the payroll, and we had these three months to do the movie. And then they got behind on scheduling and said, 'No, we're going to have to move it in this time.'" So she said no so she could keep touring and pay all her staff.

Gen Fricker:

That's crazy.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Isn't that unbelievable?

Gen Fricker:

Wow. When you're an industry, like Reba is an industry, you can't sink that industry just for a little movie. Maybe it's one of the biggest movies of all time, but Reba's still one of the biggest country singers of all time.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely. I think what's so fascinating about going through all of these, a lot of them are those big star making roles, like the ones that broke them into stratospheric movie stardom. One that has stood out to me was Molly Ringwald was offered the role of Vivian in Pretty Woman before Julia Roberts was discovered.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

And she's already like huge wattage movie star at that time. And this is what she said in this Reddit AMA, "I think I saw an early draught when it was called 3,000." Creepy title, by the way, for the movie.

Gen Fricker:

Yuck.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

"I don't specifically remember turning it down. The script was okay, but I got to say, Julia Roberts is what makes that movie. It was her part. Every actor hopes for a part that lets them shine like that."

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

That's kind of beautiful, right?

Gen Fricker:

I mean, she's got the toothy redhead thing on luck.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Absolutely.

Gen Fricker:

Far out. But that would have been such a different movie.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. I think it would have worked too. I think Molly Ringwald's a great actor and also can hit some of those great comedic beats. But it's undeniable when you've got a movie star breakthrough role like Julia Roberts has in Pretty Woman.

Gen Fricker:

Can I give you a bonus one?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Give me a bonus.

Gen Fricker:

Speaking of industries, speaking of one word icons, guess who auditioned for Hermione in the Harry Potter films?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

One word icons?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Was it Cher? Madonna? Which one was it?

Gen Fricker:

It was Fricker.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

What? Oh my god. Are you serious?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. I auditioned for Hermione.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

You auditioned for Hermione?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah. I didn't get it, obviously.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Are you sure?

Gen Fricker:

Yeah, what do you mean? What do you mean?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Maybe you missed the call.

Gen Fricker:

No. Oh, yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Check in with them.

Gen Fricker:

And say, "I missed that. Sort it through my mum." Yeah, I auditioned for it. They did a big, cool-

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Really?

Gen Fricker:

Well, they did a big worldwide audition event. Anyone could audition. So I auditioned, a couple of my friends auditioned. Actually, my friend Rowan Witt, musical theatre actor, he was in The Matrix, it was between him and Daniel Radcliffe.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god.

Gen Fricker:

And then J. K. Rowling intervened at the last minute and said, "I want an all British cast."

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I'm tingling right now.

Gen Fricker:

I know.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I can't believe this. You were almost Hermione.

Gen Fricker:

I mean, not really almost, but yeah.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Okay. Can you do your audition? I just need to go back in there.

Gen Fricker:

"Langardium Leviosa." Oh, I don't even remember it.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh, I can see maybe why you didn't get the offer. That's crazy, dude.

Gen Fricker:

I know. I could be giving speeches at the UN now.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah, you could have been Belle in Beauty and the Beast.

Gen Fricker:

I could have been The Bling Ring.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

You would be a fricking Bling Ringer.

Gen Fricker:

Oh.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

You were almost a Bling Ringer, dude.

Gen Fricker:

I could have been Alexis Neiers.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Oh my god. "Hello. This is Alexis Neiers calling."

Gen Fricker:

"Nancy Jo, this is Alexis Neiers."

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Okay. This one I'm giving you the role.

Gen Fricker:

Thank you.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Well, allow me to one-up you on that, Gen, because there's a role that I did get that a famous actor did not.

Gen Fricker:

Wow.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

I got a role over Abbie Cornish.

Gen Fricker:

For what?

Alexei Toliopoulos:

She applied to work at a video store, and I got the job instead of her. Mainly because I think I was like 14 years old and could have got paid way less than she would have.

Gen Fricker:

Yeah, of course. Oh my god. This is hot breaking news.

Alexei Toliopoulos:

Yeah. So I became a star.

Gen Fricker:

And which one of you is a famous rapper now?